Discussion:
What are the new features and improvements in the latest upgrade to OS2008?
(too old to reply)
John Holmblad
2008-12-19 19:35:37 UTC
Permalink
All,

what is the url to the www page that documents the new features and
improvements that are contained in the latest upgrade to OS2008? I
cannot seem to find anything at the Nokia www site for OS2008.
--
Best Regards,


John Holmblad
Acadia Secure Networks, LLC





<mailto:***@verizon.net>
Ryan Abel
2008-12-19 20:15:28 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:35 PM, John Holmblad
Post by John Holmblad
what is the url to the www page that documents the new features and
improvements that are contained in the latest upgrade to OS2008? I
cannot seem to find anything at the Nokia www site for OS2008.
There never having been one in the past, what would lead you to
believe there would be one now? ;) We're always hoping Nokia will
throw us a bone, but it seems unlikely anytime in the short term.

Anyway, yerga compiled some changelogs from some select packages[1],
there are some bugs mentioned in the release notes[2], and the rest of
them by TM are in bugzilla[3].


[1]http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=250170&postcount=11
[2]http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/diablo/maemo-sdk-relnotes_4.1.2.txt
[3]https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1.3&resolution=FIXED
Gary
2008-12-20 03:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the useful links -- they're much more detailed than the
Wikipedia entry on Maemo. I sometimes yearn for the days when one
could find such information solely on Usenet, mailing lists, or FTP
sites.

-Gary
Ryan Abel
2008-12-20 16:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Thanks for the useful links -- they're much more detailed than the
Wikipedia entry on Maemo. I sometimes yearn for the days when one
could find such information solely on Usenet, mailing lists, or FTP
sites.
Well, having written most of the Maemo article ;), Wikipedia isn't the
place for that sort of insane detail. The Maemo article is less for
people who already know a thing or two about Maemo than it is for
people that know absolutely nothing about it.
Andre Klapper
2008-12-21 22:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Abel
Post by John Holmblad
what is the url to the www page that documents the new features and
improvements that are contained in the latest upgrade to OS2008?
there are some bugs mentioned in the release notes[2], and the rest of
them by TM are in bugzilla[3].
[3]https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1.3&resolution=FIXED
This URL should be even more(TM) correct:
https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1.3&resolution=FIXED&resolution=CLOSED&resolution=VERIFIED

-andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
Andre Klapper
2008-12-22 01:13:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Klapper
Post by Ryan Abel
[3]https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1.3&resolution=FIXED
https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1.3&resolution=FIXED&resolution=CLOSED&resolution=VERIFIED
I obviously should not answer mail when just getting home.
Ignore this. Ryan was of course right...

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
Andre Klapper
2008-12-23 16:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Abel
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:35 PM, John Holmblad
Post by John Holmblad
what is the url to the www page that documents the new features and
improvements that are contained in the latest upgrade to OS2008?
There never having been one in the past, what would lead you to
believe there would be one now? ;)
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
Tim Ashman
2008-12-23 17:32:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Klapper
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .
andre
Do you know whether or not they fixed the support for deleting via POP3 on a
case by case basis. Or whether they added the ability to have all accounts
dump into the same inbox without having filter/rules.

thanks

tim
Andre Klapper
2008-12-23 18:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .
andre
Do you know whether or not they fixed the support for deleting via POP3 on a
case by case basis. Or whether they added the ability to have all accounts
dump into the same inbox without having filter/rules.
Are there requests about this in Maemo Bugzilla? If so, please check
their statuses. If not, please file two enhancement requests.

Very unlikely these two enhancement requests have been worked on. And if
I was a product manager I wouldn't introduce huge enhancement changes
anyway that late in the (Diablo) release cycle. "If".

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
Tim Ashman
2008-12-23 18:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Klapper
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .
andre
Do you know whether or not they fixed the support for deleting via POP3
on a case by case basis. Or whether they added the ability to have all
accounts dump into the same inbox without having filter/rules.
Are there requests about this in Maemo Bugzilla? If so, please check
their statuses. If not, please file two enhancement requests.
Very unlikely these two enhancement requests have been worked on. And if
I was a product manager I wouldn't introduce huge enhancement changes
anyway that late in the (Diablo) release cycle. "If".
andre
I believe they are already filed. I can check, I just thought you might know
off the top of your head.

thank you

tim
kenneth marken
2008-12-23 18:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .
andre
Do you know whether or not they fixed the support for deleting via POP3
on a case by case basis. Or whether they added the ability to have all
accounts dump into the same inbox without having filter/rules.
Are there requests about this in Maemo Bugzilla? If so, please check
their statuses. If not, please file two enhancement requests.
Very unlikely these two enhancement requests have been worked on. And if
I was a product manager I wouldn't introduce huge enhancement changes
anyway that late in the (Diablo) release cycle. "If".
andre
I believe they are already filed. I can check, I just thought you might know
off the top of your head.
thank you
tim
im aware of the pop3 related one is filed at least, but there has been
no actual feedback on it from the devs themselves, from what i can tell,
and its still listed as "unconfirmed" or something like that...
Tim Ashman
2008-12-23 19:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenneth marken
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
Post by Tim Ashman
Post by Andre Klapper
The bug fixes for Modest (well, the subject lines of the internal bug
tickets) in 5.2008.43-7 are now listed at
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3952#c3 .
andre
Do you know whether or not they fixed the support for deleting via POP3
on a case by case basis. Or whether they added the ability to have all
accounts dump into the same inbox without having filter/rules.
Are there requests about this in Maemo Bugzilla? If so, please check
their statuses. If not, please file two enhancement requests.
Very unlikely these two enhancement requests have been worked on. And if
I was a product manager I wouldn't introduce huge enhancement changes
anyway that late in the (Diablo) release cycle. "If".
andre
I believe they are already filed. I can check, I just thought you might
know off the top of your head.
thank you
tim
im aware of the pop3 related one is filed at least, but there has been
no actual feedback on it from the devs themselves, from what i can tell,
and its still listed as "unconfirmed" or something like that...
I took a look, and it is marked as Low or won't do. It is a shame since that
is a show stopper for me. I've been using the web interface on the tablet
but I now just have been ssh'ing to my home machine and running kmail
remotely to check mail. It works and I don't have the issue with seeing
emails more than once.

tim
Ryan Abel
2008-12-24 13:38:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Ashman
I took a look, and it is marked as Low or won't do. It is a shame since that
is a show stopper for me. I've been using the web interface on the tablet
but I now just have been ssh'ing to my home machine and running kmail
remotely to check mail. It works and I don't have the issue with seeing
emails more than once.
Currently Maemo bugs in Bugzilla are not properly triaged for priority
(as that would require Nokia to actually pay attention to them and
work them into their workflow), so don't take the priority as anything
but an indication of what either the reporter or a community triager
has set based on entirely arbitrary criteria.
Tim Ashman
2008-12-24 14:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Abel
Post by Tim Ashman
I took a look, and it is marked as Low or won't do. It is a shame since
that is a show stopper for me. I've been using the web interface on the
tablet but I now just have been ssh'ing to my home machine and running
kmail remotely to check mail. It works and I don't have the issue with
seeing emails more than once.
Currently Maemo bugs in Bugzilla are not properly triaged for priority
(as that would require Nokia to actually pay attention to them and
work them into their workflow), so don't take the priority as anything
but an indication of what either the reporter or a community triager
has set based on entirely arbitrary criteria.
Thank you for the explanation. I wish Nokia or whoever needs to would just
make the older email client available to diablo users. Let users pick.

This reminds me of Microsoft's problem. They want people to switch to Vista
(windows 7) whatever but for alot of people XP will work for quite a while,
Microsoft isn't given them a chance to stay with the old. It is all about
forcing a revenue stream, although in Nokia's case this isn't true since
diablo was a free upgrade, so it is something else with them, but the end
result is people are forced to stay behind or go forward with a solution
that isn't a nice. I do realize that you can't keep everything working
forever on every new platform but Modest is missing some fairly important
pieces and doesn't seem geared towards a tablet users.

On a side note I've switched to using Panucci for my media player, why because
it has nice big buttons, and allows me to move the timeline around with one
touch of my finger instead of trying to grab, hold and slide the timeline
with the builtin media player. I wish nokia gave us a way to remove the apps
we didn't want from diablo and replace them, memory is at a premium and
currently Modest and Media Player are just wasting precious space.

tim
lakestevensdental
2008-12-19 22:49:39 UTC
Permalink
As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal. After
week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units. I've had
my n800 since spring 07.

First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design. Big enough to view,
small enough for the average pocket. However, as part of this, it
sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.

The Touch's interface is also more 'fun' to use, although it's no where
near as user configurable. The motion sensitivity is nice as it self
adjusts for vertical or horizontal viewing. The ablity to zoom in or
out with two finger touch screen sensitivity is very nice. The Touch
screen keyboard is nothing to jump up and down about. I found the n800s
touch keyboard is easier to use. I miss the stylus on the Touch.

The Touch's Safari browser is a bit faster opening pages and generally
does a slightly better job at YouTubing. Safari also routinely opens
pages in mobile format if that option is provided by the web site. I'm
not sure I always like this. There seem to be some webpages that Safari
doesn't handle well that the n800 browser plows thru just fine.

The Touch's (free and $) games are numerous and generally higher
quality fun than n8x0 games, at least for the teen crowd. The Touch
does a decent job playing video podcasts. It automatically sets
bookmarks so you can pick up a podcast where you left off, days later,
after you've viewed a lot of other 'stuff'. I'm not sure any of the
internet tablet's numerous players and interfaces do this very well.

The Touch games (free and otherwise) don't do much for me. I've
downloaded and played several -- splurged $5 for one game, a whole $ for
another. The motion sensitive games are kind of cool, if you're into
that sort of thing. I'm well adapted to the simple brain teasers
puzzles and solitaire games on my n8x0, although I know there are other
more arcade like n800 games out there. Having a central Apple 'store'
for shopping and downloading games makes it really easy to 'buy' apps
and tunes. One click pays and downloads. Which helps move product
along -- even if it's only a buck here or there... Supposedly, this
helps produce higher quality apps and a broader growing marketplace.

In summary, the Touch is well designed for it's marketing niche. That
all said, I'm going to stick with the n8x0 and give the Touch to my teen
age son. It's a matter of what you use these 'gadgets' for.

I've not found the Touch to be very weak for RSS news browsing, which
is perhaps my primary use for my n800. The n8x0 Claws email is much
better suited for my use than the Touch's email program. Also, I
haven't figured out if there is a way to sync my Touch with Google
Calendars as I have with my n8x0. I also regularly do wireless file
transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten
on the iTouch. I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show
patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.
Nothing like that is available on the Touch.

While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with
the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out. Everything
between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes. Basically, there no
'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch. At least
not unless you are willing to 'break' the various software locks that
the iTouch has to protect it's proprietary nature.

Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of the iTouch is both it's
strength and weakness. It's like owning a car that you can't open up the
hood on. This is fine for some users, not for others. For me, this
makes the Touch more like a very nice toy, verses the n8x0, which is is
more a of "tool" that can really do things. I'm more of a tool junky...
Aniello Del Sorbo
2008-12-20 00:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Thanks.This is the best review/comparison I've ever read about the two.
And perfectly describes my feeling about the Apple products.

Aniello
Post by lakestevensdental
As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal. After
week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units. I've had
my n800 since spring 07.
First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design. Big enough to view,
small enough for the average pocket. However, as part of this, it
sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
The Touch's interface is also more 'fun' to use, although it's no where
near as user configurable. The motion sensitivity is nice as it self
adjusts for vertical or horizontal viewing. The ablity to zoom in or
out with two finger touch screen sensitivity is very nice. The Touch
screen keyboard is nothing to jump up and down about. I found the n800s
touch keyboard is easier to use. I miss the stylus on the Touch.
The Touch's Safari browser is a bit faster opening pages and generally
does a slightly better job at YouTubing. Safari also routinely opens
pages in mobile format if that option is provided by the web site. I'm
not sure I always like this. There seem to be some webpages that Safari
doesn't handle well that the n800 browser plows thru just fine.
The Touch's (free and $) games are numerous and generally higher
quality fun than n8x0 games, at least for the teen crowd. The Touch
does a decent job playing video podcasts. It automatically sets
bookmarks so you can pick up a podcast where you left off, days later,
after you've viewed a lot of other 'stuff'. I'm not sure any of the
internet tablet's numerous players and interfaces do this very well.
The Touch games (free and otherwise) don't do much for me. I've
downloaded and played several -- splurged $5 for one game, a whole $ for
another. The motion sensitive games are kind of cool, if you're into
that sort of thing. I'm well adapted to the simple brain teasers
puzzles and solitaire games on my n8x0, although I know there are other
more arcade like n800 games out there. Having a central Apple 'store'
for shopping and downloading games makes it really easy to 'buy' apps
and tunes. One click pays and downloads. Which helps move product
along -- even if it's only a buck here or there... Supposedly, this
helps produce higher quality apps and a broader growing marketplace.
In summary, the Touch is well designed for it's marketing niche. That
all said, I'm going to stick with the n8x0 and give the Touch to my teen
age son. It's a matter of what you use these 'gadgets' for.
I've not found the Touch to be very weak for RSS news browsing, which
is perhaps my primary use for my n800. The n8x0 Claws email is much
better suited for my use than the Touch's email program. Also, I
haven't figured out if there is a way to sync my Touch with Google
Calendars as I have with my n8x0. I also regularly do wireless file
transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten
on the iTouch. I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show
patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.
Nothing like that is available on the Touch.
While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with
the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out. Everything
between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes. Basically, there no
'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch. At least
not unless you are willing to 'break' the various software locks that
the iTouch has to protect it's proprietary nature.
Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of the iTouch is both it's
strength and weakness. It's like owning a car that you can't open up the
hood on. This is fine for some users, not for others. For me, this
makes the Touch more like a very nice toy, verses the n8x0, which is is
more a of "tool" that can really do things. I'm more of a tool junky...
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
--
anidel
Matt Emson
2008-12-20 01:34:27 UTC
Permalink
On 19 Dec 2008, at 22:49, lakestevensdental wrote:


I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen
is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played
with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less
prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release
was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled
characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo
release tho.
Post by lakestevensdental
I also regularly do wireless file
transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten
on the iTouch.
Not true. I don't own one, but I know there are apps that will make
the ipod touch (not itouch) or iphone look like a file share on the
wireless network and transfer files. There's even a free one. This was
a question that came up on the last MacCast, so check that podcast out
for more info.
Post by lakestevensdental
I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show
patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.
Nothing like that is available on the Touch.
RDP is available IIRC. VNC is too. Which protocol is it that you
require?
Post by lakestevensdental
While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with
the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out.
There are apps to do this. They tend not to be able to put files in to
the OS readable drive space though. But then, this doesn't work on any
ipod. Apple removed the disk mode to deter people hacking the firmware.
Post by lakestevensdental
Everything
between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes. Basically, there no
'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch.
It's a multimedia music player. It's not designed to be in the same
sphere as the N8x0. They are *meant* to be general purpose.
Post by lakestevensdental
Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of ...
This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the
N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.

M
Gary
2008-12-20 03:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the
N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.
One could easily argue that several aspects of the tablet, including
red pill mode, are much the same as a pwned iPhone. I own both devices
and I use them both extensively. I've found that due to its size, the
iPhone is the device that gets put in my pocket more often and
therefore ends up being a portable google maps, note taker, gaming
device, video player (resume is excellent inside the ipod app) etc.
Also, as pointed out previously, network file sharing from the iPhone
are available from several apps like DataCase or AirSharing.

However, if I have serious work to do then I open up my Bluetooth
keyboard and use my tablet with SSH, vpnc, rdesktop, etc. I also find
the occasional Flash site that I can only access from my tablet. I
also find that the word hints with the virtual keyboard sometimes
makes for much faster typing than either with my BT keyboard or using
my thumb on my iPhone.

As a long time unix sysadmin, I've become accustomed to both closed
and open systems (hardware, firmware, OS, etc) and they both have
their advantages over each other. I think it's more of a personal
preference the same way some prefer European or Asian cars over
American cars. I can say this, though; if I hadn't already been an
AT&T customer with a data plan I might have bought an iPod Touch or
Android device instead of a 3G iPhone. I didn't buy the 1st gen iPhone
because I had to have the slightly faster network speed as an option
even though I often leave the 3G and GPS radios turned off.

Also, I'd have been hard pressed to by a Nokia tablet were netbooks on
the market at the time I bought my N700 and N800s... esp. now that
some of them are down to US$300.

-Gary
Lake Stevens Dental
2008-12-21 20:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Also, I'd have been hard pressed to by a Nokia tablet were netbooks on
the market at the time I bought my N700 and N800s... esp. now that
some of them are down to US$300.
My daughter had a netbook. She had a hard time giving up her full
sized laptop because when she wants to take a break from studies she
just clicks on Sims2 and dives in. Her laptop with a modest graphics
set is pressed playing Sims 2. A netbook would be further pressed,
although it probably just a chipset and process upgrade away from
crossing that barrier...

Long story short, I've ended up with her netbook. I've played with
Ubuntu, and XP Pro. It sees light duty while browsing in bed and I need
to type something more than what I want to do with the stylus on the
n800 or YouTube a little smoother. The touch screen is a lot easier to
use in bed. Getting my netbook better synced with my laptop (or
desktop) might help, but I've not had the time to sort task that out.

If someone starts out with a decent recent release netbook, I suppose
that might be all one needs for many mobile/work applications. It would
seem to make a very nice small footprint workstation for many business
applications.
--
Always, Dr Fred C
***@drfredc.com
Lake Stevens Dental
2008-12-21 19:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen
is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played
with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less
prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release
was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled
characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo
release tho.
To each his own on the keyboard layout. I'm a stylus user on the n800.
In the here and now (like anyone really cares about the hassles of those
who use outdates OSs), I've not had much double typing issues with the
n800 with the stylus. The Itouch appears to use a heat sensitive
screen, which means you can't use a stylus -- You've got to use your
chubby fingers. It is more sensitive than the n800. Double keys don't
seem to be an issue on the Itouch as much as getting the key you want.
Like most anything, one's 'accuracy' seems to improve with time. It may
be this is the reason the n800 double strokes have improved.
Post by Matt Emson
Not true. I don't own one, but I know there are apps that will make
the ipod touch (not itouch) or iphone look like a file share on the
wireless network and transfer files. There's even a free one. This was
a question that came up on the last MacCast, so check that podcast out
for more info.
They are surely ways, if you break the 'lock' on the Touch OS. Also,
the Touch doesn't have bluetooth (so far as I know). If you're dealing
with a Bluetooth phone, file transfers are probably a given. If there
is an Apple approved file manager/wireless transfer app for the Touch,
it's not included in the generic release or not readily findable.

There may be a free file transfer app in the Apple App store. It seems
there's a conscious decision to require users to have to visit it often
for this and that -- the marketeers assumption is that you'll soon break
down and start buying things. With lots of apps costing less than a
Starbucks, it's probably a good strategy for Apple and their numerous
developers.
Post by Matt Emson
I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show patients xRays on
my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs. Nothing like
that is available on the Touch. RDP is available IIRC. VNC is too.
You could be correct about there being something like this for the Touch
in the Apple Store, or it could be an 'outside' app that requires
breaking the 'lock'. The Touch obviously has a capable computer under
it's hood. It's just not set up to give the impression of being able to
open the hood... There are hacks available, if you're into that sort
of thing...

BTW, there is one other thing I've noted about Safari and web pages on
the Touch. It seems to store pages offline so that when you click to
load one of these pages, the page loads very quickly, instead of being
dragged down off the web after all of the web connections are
established. IMHO, this would be a nice feature for the n800's browser
to have, at least as a default option.
Post by Matt Emson
This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the
N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.
Agreed. It's interesting to have two somewhat similar products. The
Touch approaches "the market at large" from the proprietary perspective,
while the N800 approaches the "market at large" from the open source
perspective. Both could learn a bit from each other. One thing I
didn't mention about the Touch is how the more you use it, the more you
may wish it was an Iphone, or one of the many clones that are filling
the marketplace. It would be nice to not have to be tethered to wifi
to get all of it's features.

Always, Dr Fred C
***@drfredc.com
kenneth marken
2008-12-21 20:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lake Stevens Dental
Post by Matt Emson
I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen
is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played
with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less
prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release
was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled
characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo
release tho.
To each his own on the keyboard layout. I'm a stylus user on the n800.
In the here and now (like anyone really cares about the hassles of those
who use outdates OSs), I've not had much double typing issues with the
n800 with the stylus. The Itouch appears to use a heat sensitive
screen, which means you can't use a stylus -- You've got to use your
chubby fingers. It is more sensitive than the n800. Double keys don't
seem to be an issue on the Itouch as much as getting the key you want.
Like most anything, one's 'accuracy' seems to improve with time. It may
be this is the reason the n800 double strokes have improved.
more correctly the itouch uses a capacitive screen that reacts to the
change in voltage when skin, or something with similar conductivity,
comes into contact or very near.

this then allows the ease of gesturing and other stuff we see in the
interface of said device, as one do not have to maintain a minimum level
of pressure on the surface of the screen. said requirements on resistive
screens, like whats used everywhere else, means that one invoke the
surface resistance of the finger, the very thing that allows one to hold
onto something like a glass of water or other apparently smooth surface.

im guessing, but i suspect that the double-press of the tablet screen
comes from issues with registering no pressure. that is, if you suddenly
have a drop in pressure followed by a increase, it may register that as
two presses when it was just a movement of the finger or something of
that nature.

i would say that the single clever trick they did on the device, and its
relative, was the selection of said screen.
Mark
2008-12-22 04:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenneth marken
more correctly the itouch uses a capacitive screen that reacts to the
change in voltage when skin, or something with similar conductivity,
comes into contact or very near.
this then allows the ease of gesturing and other stuff we see in the
interface of said device, as one do not have to maintain a minimum level
of pressure on the surface of the screen. said requirements on resistive
screens, like whats used everywhere else, means that one invoke the
surface resistance of the finger, the very thing that allows one to hold
onto something like a glass of water or other apparently smooth surface.
im guessing, but i suspect that the double-press of the tablet screen
comes from issues with registering no pressure. That is, if you suddenly
have a drop in pressure followed by a increase, it may register that as
two presses when it was just a movement of the finger or something of
that nature.
i would say that the single clever trick they did on the device, and its
relative, was the selection of said screen.
Capacitive screens are nice for bare fingers, but if you're wearing
gloves they don't work. I'll take the pressure-sensitive screen any
day. I can use my gloved finger or the stylus when it's -10 degrees
and don't have to worry about frostbite, unlike the guy I saw at the
bus stop the other day...

I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do. They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power). I now also have a battery-powered USB hub (that is as
small as most normal hubs) that can power the tablet as well as other
USB peripherals such as USB memory devices etc.

Apples are all about style over substance. If you want to join the
me-too crowd who wants to have what everyone else has, regardless of
whether it's actually worth anything, then by all means jump on the
Apple bandwagon. You won't actually own the device you paid for,
though. Apple will dictate to you what you can and cannot do with it.
Even if you crack it, the possibilities are far from wide open, and
you'll be in a world of hurt if you ever want something that's in the
official channels.

I'll take (relatively) open and a smaller range (but free) of apps
with at least the possibility of doing anything at all with it without
worrying about voiding the warranty, thank you very much.

Mark
Rick Bilonick
2008-12-22 07:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Capacitive screens are nice for bare fingers, but if you're wearing
gloves they don't work. I'll take the pressure-sensitive screen any
day. I can use my gloved finger or the stylus when it's -10 degrees
and don't have to worry about frostbite, unlike the guy I saw at the
bus stop the other day...
I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do. They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power). I now also have a battery-powered USB hub (that is as
small as most normal hubs) that can power the tablet as well as other
USB peripherals such as USB memory devices etc.
Apples are all about style over substance. If you want to join the
me-too crowd who wants to have what everyone else has, regardless of
whether it's actually worth anything, then by all means jump on the
Apple bandwagon. You won't actually own the device you paid for,
though. Apple will dictate to you what you can and cannot do with it.
Even if you crack it, the possibilities are far from wide open, and
you'll be in a world of hurt if you ever want something that's in the
official channels.
I'll take (relatively) open and a smaller range (but free) of apps
with at least the possibility of doing anything at all with it without
worrying about voiding the warranty, thank you very much.
Mark
_______________________________________________
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.

Rick B.
lakestevensdental
2008-12-22 23:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Bilonick
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.

For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.

Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source
'free' software. However, there is something to be said for the
increased diversity of having both.

Always, Fred C
kenneth marken
2008-12-23 00:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
Post by Rick Bilonick
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.
For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.
i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing
on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products
when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.

basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising
really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe
photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way
back...
lakestevensdental
2008-12-23 01:19:40 UTC
Permalink
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
kenneth marken wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@broadpark.no" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">lakestevensdental wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Rick Bilonick wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.

For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing
on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products
when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.

basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising
really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe
photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way
back...
</pre>
</blockquote>
This isn't necessarily an Apple Iphone/Ipod deal.&nbsp; A lot of medical
people have Epocrates on their palm pilot device.&nbsp; AND the software was
available before the Iphone and Itouch. <br>
<br>
&nbsp;What undoubtably makes it work really well for developers is the App
Store that provides a common portal for both free and paid expanded
service software, as well as free and full game versions.&nbsp;&nbsp; It just
makes common marketing sense that the device that has a functional
store where people actually buy product is going to do better at
attracting development than a 'repository' of free junk.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Always, Fred C<br>
</body>
</html>
kenneth marken
2008-12-23 01:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by kenneth marken
Post by lakestevensdental
Post by Rick Bilonick
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.
For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.
i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing
on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products
when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.
basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising
really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe
photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way
back...
This isn't necessarily an Apple Iphone/Ipod deal. A lot of medical
people have Epocrates on their palm pilot device. AND the software
was available before the Iphone and Itouch.
What undoubtably makes it work really well for developers is the App
Store that provides a common portal for both free and paid expanded
service software, as well as free and full game versions. It just
makes common marketing sense that the device that has a functional
store where people actually buy product is going to do better at
attracting development than a 'repository' of free junk.
Always, Fred C
there is always the possibility to get the palm version going on
garnetvm, or get nokia to host a version at their tabletter repository.

but basically, nokia nearly flatlined their presence in USA when they
refused operators to alter the firmware on nokia phones. thats why one
see close to no USA mobile device blog or similar talk about symbian.
its only windows mobile, blackberry and lately iphone and android.

and this have had a impact on other nokia products as well, i guess...

sadly, it seems that all the big tech sites online are USA focused.
gizmodo, engadget, cnet, they all write with a very USA focus. and as
the iphone makes it big there (and compared to what was around at the
time, it was a big thing, for that market) this is echoed around the
world as the smaller sites pick up their news based on the "credibility"
of the big ones, forgetting about their very slanted view (when it comes
to mobile tech, USA has just as weird a market as japan, but in a
somewhat different way).
Jerry Van Baren
2008-12-23 02:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
Post by Rick Bilonick
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.
For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.
Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source
'free' software. However, there is something to be said for the
increased diversity of having both.
Always, Fred C
Hi Fred,

FWIIW, the reason Epocrates isn't available on the N8x0 is because the
*company* <http://www.epocrates.com/index.html> has not ported it to the
N8x0. Since it is closed source, they are the only ones who can do the
port. It isn't fair to fault open source 'free' software for things
(ports) proprietary companies refuse to do.

Perhaps Epocrates is not aware of the N8x0 family. Perhaps they don't
believe there is enough of a market in the N8x0 family to be worth their
effort to port it (they make money by selling a premium version). Have
you asked them to port their software to the N8x0?

Best regards,
gvb
Matt Emson
2008-12-24 20:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Van Baren
It isn't fair to fault open source 'free' software for things
(ports) proprietary companies refuse to do.
It isn't fair to expect companies attempting to make profit form their
software to give it away for free or to port to an untested platform
"just because" a couple of users might buy the software.
John Holmblad
2008-12-23 17:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Fred,

I see that there is a Palm version of the Epocrates software. Thus, it
might be possible to run the Epocrates software on the N800/N810 by
first installing the N800/N810 Garnet VM for the Palm OS and running
Epocrates inside of that VM.


Best Regards,



John Holmblad



Acadia Secure Networks, LLC
Post by lakestevensdental
Post by Rick Bilonick
I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of
sources -- many free, many not. Like Maemo, it's a central clearing
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest.
For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on
drugs, interactions and more. There's a free download for the Ipod
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks.
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other
internet phone devices. However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0
series so far as I can tell. This software is self-contained so it
works with and without wifi connection. You can get a wifi Epocrates
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine.
Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source
'free' software. However, there is something to be said for the
increased diversity of having both.
Always, Fred C
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
h***@topoi.pooq.com
2008-12-23 07:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power).
If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a
keyboard!

-- hendrik
Mark
2008-12-22 15:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@topoi.pooq.com
Post by Mark
I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power).
If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a
keyboard!
-- hendrik
So exactly what model is your keyboard? I don't have any trouble with
my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
OSs). Some hubs have that problem - and shouldn't.

I've toyed with the idea of hacking a hub and keyboard together to
save space and increase the number of power options.

Mark
kenneth marken
2008-12-22 15:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by h***@topoi.pooq.com
Post by Mark
I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power).
If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a
keyboard!
-- hendrik
So exactly what model is your keyboard? I don't have any trouble with
my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
OSs). Some hubs have that problem - and shouldn't.
I've toyed with the idea of hacking a hub and keyboard together to
save space and increase the number of power options
iirc, there are keyboards out there with built in hubs. i do not have a
link to one available tho...
w***@gmail.com
2008-12-22 18:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
So exactly what model is your keyboard?
It's an alphasmart neo. I've never found another keyboard that feels as
good when I'm typing. And it can be used separate from the computer,
too, wherupon is saves up what you type so that later, at the computer,
it uploads everything by typing it into you word processor. It runs on
three AA batteries for about nine months of normal use.
Post by Mark
I don't have any trouble with
my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
OSs).
The keyboard works without special effort on Windows, Mac, and
Debian Linux. But yes, perhaps maemo has left out a driver that was
present in Debian. And maybe it demands power from the USB port in
hookup mode that it doesn't need otherwise. Perhaps draining USB power
is how it recognises there's a computer there.
I just know it's annoying.
-- hendrik
I'll bet it's a power issue, not a driver one. Try hooking it up
through a powered hub: if it works, that means it needs power for the
additional electronics that the tablet can't provide. If it doesn't
work, it's probably a driver issue. I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives, but works fine with my keyboards. Although it's
amazing to me that it actually can power the receiver for my wireless
keyboard. I would have thought that that would take at least as much
power as a memory drive, but apparently not.

Mark
h***@topoi.pooq.com
2008-12-23 12:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
So exactly what model is your keyboard?
It's an alphasmart neo. I've never found another keyboard that feels as
good when I'm typing. And it can be used separate from the computer,
too, wherupon is saves up what you type so that later, at the computer,
it uploads everything by typing it into you word processor. It runs on
three AA batteries for about nine months of normal use.
Post by Mark
I don't have any trouble with
my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
OSs).
The keyboard works without special effort on Windows, Mac, and
Debian Linux. But yes, perhaps maemo has left out a driver that was
present in Debian. And maybe it demands power from the USB port in
hookup mode that it doesn't need otherwise. Perhaps draining USB power
is how it recognises there's a computer there.
I just know it's annoying.
-- hendrik
I'll bet it's a power issue, not a driver one. Try hooking it up
through a powered hub: if it works, that means it needs power for the
additional electronics that the tablet can't provide. If it doesn't
work, it's probably a driver issue. I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives, but works fine with my keyboards. Although it's
amazing to me that it actually can power the receiver for my wireless
keyboard. I would have thought that that would take at least as much
power as a memory drive, but apparently not.
Mark
Will try.

-- hendrik
Post by w***@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
A J Thew
2008-12-22 10:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal. After
week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units. I've had
my n800 since spring 07.
First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design. Big enough to view,
small enough for the average pocket. However, as part of this, it
sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the newer
firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on the
Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's only
one winer.

A Thew
Marius Gedminas
2008-12-22 11:38:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by A J Thew
I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the newer
firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on the
Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's only
one winer.
You mean the one that doesn't flat-out refuse to work with my Linux-only
laptop?

Marius Gedminas
--
Voodoo Programming: Things programmers do that they know shouldn't work but
they try anyway, and which sometimes actually work, such as recompiling
everything.
-- Karl Lehenbauer
Matt Emson
2008-12-22 23:31:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marius Gedminas
You mean the one that doesn't flat-out refuse to work with my Linux-
only
laptop?
If we're being pedantic, why would you buy a product that clearly
states it does not support LINUX? That's a bit like me buying a book
in Japanese and expecting to be able to read it. Sure, I could learn
Japanese, but let's face it, it's unlikely I'll learn enough Japanese
to read the book any time soon ;-)

M
Denis Dimick
2008-12-22 20:41:38 UTC
Permalink
I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling the
iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way I wanted to
- iTunes sucks.

I then went over to a Windows phone, and have since gone back to my Nokia
5300, at least the Nokia lets me manage my music. I'll look at an Andriod
next year, when they get a bit more cost efective, however, I'l only get rid
of my n810 to buy an new one.

While there is a fairly large learning curve to learn how to deal with a
n810, as with an Linux distro, it's well worth the effort. The simple fact
that you can ssh into the n810, as with other n-series Internet Tablets,
makes it nice. Running "real" commands on the device is the "icing on the
cake".

Just my two cents,

Denis
Post by A J Thew
Post by lakestevensdental
As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal. After
week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units. I've had
my n800 since spring 07.
First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design. Big enough to view,
small enough for the average pocket. However, as part of this, it
sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the newer
firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on the
Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's only
one winer.
A Thew
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
--
--------------------------------------
sik vis paw kem, para bellum
--------------------------------------
oderint dum metuant
--------------------------------------
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!" -LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
Matt Emson
2008-12-22 23:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denis Dimick
I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling
the iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way
I wanted to - iTunes sucks.
I've never really had a problem with iTunes (5th gen iPod owner), but
I've never had a *good* experience with my N800 and media. My 5th gen
ipod runs rings around the N800, and that is the problem I have with
the N8x0 series with regards to media. There's not one player that
works properly and has a good interface. Canola2 is close, but it
constantly plays a few seconds from a random MP3 between tracks when
on shuffle. No good. I've never owned a music player other than an
iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.

Android, having played with it over the last few days (Nitdroid) is
slicker than Maemo. I hope the port matures and I can use it full
time. It's a lot more pleasurable to use than Maemo. However, the N800
hardware just plain struggles to to anything useful in my experience.
Even Android is slightly pokey, and in similar ways to Maemo, so it's
likely a hardware or driver level issue.

M
Denis Dimick
2008-12-22 23:58:05 UTC
Permalink
I think it's "Hurry up and wait" for most of us; we wait to see what
improvements will occur.

I'm interested in seeing what changes the Android will see in the next 6
months.

Thanks,

Denis
Post by Denis Dimick
I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling the
Post by Denis Dimick
iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way I wanted to
- iTunes sucks.
I've never really had a problem with iTunes (5th gen iPod owner), but I've
never had a *good* experience with my N800 and media. My 5th gen ipod runs
rings around the N800, and that is the problem I have with the N8x0 series
with regards to media. There's not one player that works properly and has a
good interface. Canola2 is close, but it constantly plays a few seconds from
a random MP3 between tracks when on shuffle. No good. I've never owned a
music player other than an iPod, so maybe things would be different in that
case.
Android, having played with it over the last few days (Nitdroid) is slicker
than Maemo. I hope the port matures and I can use it full time. It's a lot
more pleasurable to use than Maemo. However, the N800 hardware just plain
struggles to to anything useful in my experience. Even Android is slightly
pokey, and in similar ways to Maemo, so it's likely a hardware or driver
level issue.
M
--
--------------------------------------
sik vis paw kem, para bellum
--------------------------------------
oderint dum metuant
--------------------------------------
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!" -LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
lakestevensdental
2008-12-23 01:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
I've never owned a music player other than an
iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.
One huge downside of both the Ipod AND n8xx series is neither plays wma
digital rights audio books. Our local library has just started to offer
mp3 audio books for download, but there are so many fewer books offered
in mp3.

Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite
well. A refurb 8g runs $50 or so. Unlike the Ipod, you can access it
like a hard drive from a file manager. Fine print, digital rights audio
books require transfers via either Window Media player or Overdrive
audio book software.

Always, Fred C
Jerry Van Baren
2008-12-23 02:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
Post by Matt Emson
I've never owned a music player other than an
iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.
One huge downside of both the Ipod AND n8xx series is neither plays wma
digital rights audio books. Our local library has just started to offer
mp3 audio books for download, but there are so many fewer books offered
in mp3.
Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite
well. A refurb 8g runs $50 or so. Unlike the Ipod, you can access it
like a hard drive from a file manager. Fine print, digital rights audio
books require transfers via either Window Media player or Overdrive
audio book software.
Always, Fred C
...and two more proprietary formats (programs), one of which is
controlled by Microsoft, the avowed enemy of linux.

It sounds like your usage needs don't match open source software. There
is nothing wrong with that, but expecting proprietary software to
magically work on linux without the support of the companies that own
that proprietary software is unrealistic.

In my case I've owned (Palm) Pilots for years (Pilot 5000, III, V, Sony,
E2). I got tired of not owning my data (locked into proprietary formats
only understood by proprietary programs, inaccessible from linux). I
decided my E2 was the last locked-in PDA that I would own.

When my E2 wore out, I bought a N800 and love it. On the other hand, my
usage pattern is quite different than my friends that own iPhones and
iPods. I do things on my N800 that they cannot do and vice versa. I
don't plan on ever going back to a proprietary platform
(Pilot/Apple/Microsoft/whatever). They don't plan to buy linux-based
PDAs/tablets. <shrugs>

Best regards,
gvb
lakestevensdental
2008-12-23 23:42:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Van Baren
neither plays wma digital rights audio books. Our local library
has just started to offer mp3 audio books for download, but there are
so many fewer books offered in mp3.
Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite
well. A refurb 8g runs $50 or so. Unlike the Ipod, you can access
it like a hard drive from a file manager. Fine print, digital rights
audio books require transfers via either Window Media player or
Overdrive audio book software.
...and two more proprietary formats (programs), one of which is
controlled by Microsoft, the avowed enemy of linux.
It sounds like your usage needs don't match open source software.
There is nothing wrong with that, but expecting proprietary software
to magically work on linux without the support of the companies that
own that proprietary software is unrealistic.
I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books. The
Sansa player is sooo much smaller and better suited for audiobooks than
the Touch or tablet. It's also good for tunes when skiing. Just don't
wear it while playing keeper, listening to tunes, while your son takes
potshots at the cage. The right smash to the chest and the audio cable
connection gets messed up. It was one of those 'learning'
experiences... I don't think any of these smaller devices have stereo
bluetooth headset hookups.

Always, Fred C
Matt Emson
2008-12-24 20:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books.
Most audiobooks I buy are from Audible. They support pretty much every
player under the sun, and prices are not over the top.

M
Tim Ashman
2008-12-24 21:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
Post by lakestevensdental
I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books.
Most audiobooks I buy are from Audible. They support pretty much every
player under the sun, and prices are not over the top.
M
I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either support
maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version. They
emailed back saying something like "we don't provide" software for each
platform, the platform has to. So I guess in the case of audible either
nokia will do it under some sort of nda/binary and audible isn't willing to
allow it to be done in a different way. I even tried to explain that I'm
sure myself as well as others would purchase books through their service if
only it was available for my hardware platform of choice.

just two cents

tim
Matt Emson
2008-12-24 21:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Ashman
I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either support
maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version.
I think the issue is more LINUX host OS vs Windows and Mac OS X host
OS on this one. You generally tend to download to your host machine
and then transfer to the player. I'm under the impression that once
you have the files downloaded as MP3, you're fine with the N800.
Getting the files is the issue. Unless it uses DRM (never used their
MP3's as I use aac "mpa" format myself.)

Having a native client on the N800 would be kind of cool though.
Tim Ashman
2008-12-24 22:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
Post by Tim Ashman
I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either support
maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version.
I think the issue is more LINUX host OS vs Windows and Mac OS X host
OS on this one. You generally tend to download to your host machine
and then transfer to the player. I'm under the impression that once
you have the files downloaded as MP3, you're fine with the N800.
Getting the files is the issue. Unless it uses DRM (never used their
MP3's as I use aac "mpa" format myself.)
Having a native client on the N800 would be kind of cool though.
It does use DRM, so the player needs to be able to undo the DRM. If it where
just mp3's it would be fine. I think to strip the DRM you would have to burn
to CD and rip back and complete pain.

One day hopefully the DRM issue will die and we can once again get back to
technology working for users instead of being the cop/judge/jury system that
DRM is.

tim

Matt Emson
2008-12-22 19:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives,
Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys (Americans would say "thumb drive" I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)

M
Luca Olivetti
2008-12-22 21:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
Post by w***@gmail.com
I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives,
Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys (Americans would say "thumb drive" I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
If you use mplayer, you could try -nocache. It seems counterintuitive
but it got rid of the choppiness here (the video was encoded....for an
iPod touch ;-))

Bye
Graham Cobb
2008-12-22 23:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
Post by w***@gmail.com
I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives,
Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys
(Americans would say "thumb drive" I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand
I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to
stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
I can't play MP3's off a USB connected drive. My N810 can play MP3's off my
local memory cards and I can copy files to/from USB attached drives with no
problems. But I can't play MP3's off the USB attached drives: the sound is
completely chopped up and incomprehensible.

I assumed that there was some common bus involved in passing data to/from the
DSP and in accessing the USB so you effectively couldn't do both at the same
time without exceeding the bandwidth of the bus. Anyone know if that is
true?

Graham
Mark
2008-12-23 18:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Emson
Post by w***@gmail.com
I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives,
Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys (Americans would say "thumb drive" I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
M
Actually, after some rather frustrating issues with mangled USB keys,
I started using USB key-sized card readers with microSD and SD cards.
That way if the reader breaks all I have to do is put the memory card
in another reader and go. No more losing important data because of a
broken connector. One of my microSD readers even went through the wash
with the card inserted and worked just fine afterward. All that is to
say that I'm actually attempting to use a card reader, not a USB key,
so that's probably the issue.

Mark
kenneth marken
2008-12-23 19:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Matt Emson
Post by w***@gmail.com
I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives,
Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys (Americans would say "thumb drive" I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
M
Actually, after some rather frustrating issues with mangled USB keys,
I started using USB key-sized card readers with microSD and SD cards.
That way if the reader breaks all I have to do is put the memory card
in another reader and go. No more losing important data because of a
broken connector. One of my microSD readers even went through the wash
with the card inserted and worked just fine afterward. All that is to
say that I'm actually attempting to use a card reader, not a USB key,
so that's probably the issue.
makes quite a bit of sense that. thats why im somewhat reluctant to
replace dvd-r media or similar with external hardrives.
lakestevensdental
2008-12-22 21:40:56 UTC
Permalink
The app store is no different in intent for distro of apps than Maemo.org. Different front end, but the intent is similar. "Here are apps in categories to install..."
I agree the "intent" is no different for the app store vs Maemo,
assuming you're not counting the garage, which has quite a number of
apps in a variety of states of utility.

I'm not sure how other's find the garage -- to me it's a mess that's
barely comprehensible by most any non-geek. I'd not use it, except that
where some of the gem's are found.

While the 'intent' between the app store and Maemo is similar, most
would probably agree that the app store is a lot more end-user friendly
than Maemo. The app store's graphical web info is readily viewed in the
Ipod's browser, there's no repositories to hunt down to confuse anyone,
all of the Apple app's use a relatively similar marketing and click to
download format. Free and Paid are easily separated by a click.

Maemo could evolve more in the app store's direction, IMHO.

Always, Fred C
Matt Emson
2008-12-22 23:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by lakestevensdental
Maemo could evolve more in the app store's direction, IMHO.
Agreed :-) For end users of a consumer nature, an "app store" would be
the only reasonable option I think. Android seems to have gotten the
idea - provide an app store for mainstream apps, but also allow third
party installs of non sanctioned software. Make it something a user
must select themselves and accept a clear warning as to the issues
that go along with third party non sanctioned software.

M.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...